| Post Info | TOPIC: German VAWTS |
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sjh7132
Guru
Status: Online
Posts: 1231
Date: Jan 6, 2010
| RE: German VAWTS |
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| sjh7132 wrote:
Bernd,
It's interesting that the flux from magnet to magnet never actually goes through the wire loop. But if you look at the flux going PAST the wire, it does almost the same thing. Thanks for the photos, they helped me understand this thing.
I take back this post. I still don't really understand why this alternator works well, or if it does. All the equations I can for voltage created have to do with the change in flux through a loop. I'd say that rule still applies here, and it's only the fringing of the field lines that makes this work. If the magnets had perfect field lines that went from mag\net to magnet, or if it was channeled through metal, I don't think this would work at all. This means there are some things about the design that are a little misleading. They are: 1) The actual area of the C has nothing to do with the voltage (or power) created. It probably has more to do with the length of the C. 2) While moving the magnets closer helps our plate alternators, it might actually hurt the operation of the C alternator because the fields will fringe less. For each magnet I'm sure there is some optimal distance, but I wonder if there is an easy way to calculate it. 3) The voltage produced is highly dependent on how close the wires get to the magnet. In our plate alts it only depends on the turns of the loop and flux. The alternator in the youtube video obviously works well, but there are 32 magnets involved. I wonder what a single phase plate alt with 16 mags on each side would have done, or 32 magnets facing outward? Just some thoughts. I really do like the idea of not having to deal with a potentially finger crushing assembly. I just need to understand this thing.
Steve
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keithturtle
Senior Member
Posts: 173
Date: Jan 6, 2010
| RE: German VAWTS |
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Ah, now I understand. The field relationship is not what I though at first.
Thank you for sharing
Turtle
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Soli Deo Gloria |
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electrondady1
Senior Member
Posts: 428
Date: Jan 6, 2010
| RE: German VAWTS |
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congratulations bernd
it's very refreshing to see such a uniqe approach.
your proto type is very pleasing to the eye.
and your workmanship is very good.
by placeing the mags on edge like that,
it's possible to place more magnets in a modest dia.
this should keep the frequency high even at lower rpm.
very nice machine.
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sjh7132
Guru
Status: Online
Posts: 1231
Date: Jan 6, 2010
| German VAWTS |
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| vawtman wrote:
I dont know if i understand your question correctly. You mean i should use a lift type profile ?
Yep with the same shape.Forget all this NACA crap and make your own for YOUR needs.Seal her up and put the fan to it and report back. Vman :)
I'm not sure we should be telling Bernd how to make turbines. I've seen claims that the C-rotor beats the lenz2. -- Edited by sjh7132 on Wednesday 6th of January 2010 02:06:37 AM
Steve
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vawtman
Senior Member
Posts: 251
Date: Jan 6, 2010
| RE: German VAWTS |
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| I dont know if i understand your question correctly. You mean i should use a lift type profile ?
Yep with the same shape.Forget all this NACA crap and make your own for YOUR needs.Seal her up and put the fan to it and report back. Has the wind hits the camber it's forces push the blade forward(so no grabbers or draggers)LOL and once going the design of the blade takes over.Found this out a few years ago experimenting.Solidity around .3 seems great.
Matching the load is the fun part. Have Fun Bud
Vman :) |
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sjh7132
Guru
Status: Online
Posts: 1231
Date: Jan 6, 2010
| RE: German VAWTS |
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Bernd,
It's interesting that the flux from magnet to magnet never actually goes through the wire loop. But if you look at the flux going PAST the wire, it does almost the same thing. Thanks for the photos, they helped me understand this thing.
__________________
Steve
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Bernd
Senior Member
Status: Online
Posts: 224
Date: Jan 5, 2010
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keithturtle
Senior Member
Posts: 173
Date: Jan 5, 2010
| RE: German VAWTS |
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Greetings Bernd;
I was quite impressed with the ring gen. I was trying to figure out the relationship of the coil to the poles of the magnets.
The supplier made an error and sent me 1" axial cylinder neos instead of the diametrical I ordered. I believe those are the ones you used?
Thanks for sharing your work
Turtle, slow
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Soli Deo Gloria |
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vawtman
Senior Member
Posts: 251
Date: Jan 5, 2010
| RE: German VAWTS |
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| Welcome aboard Bernie
One thing i'm wondering is why you didn't use a full blown airfoil curved like you have?
Works great and try it sometime :) On the power side your on the right track with a cogless aircore design.
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sjh7132
Guru
Status: Online
Posts: 1231
Date: Jan 5, 2010
| RE: German VAWTS |
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Thanks for visiting Bernd. Your English was fine, and much better than my German. :-)
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Steve
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Bernd
Senior Member
Status: Online
Posts: 224
Date: Jan 4, 2010
| German VAWTS |
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Hello
My Name ist Bernd and iam the owner of the germany discussion board an iam the builder of the Ring Generator and the " C-Rotor " into the videos.
The C-Rotor was first build in 1989 an patented in 1991. 13 Years later the patent expired and since 2004 it is free for everyone.
The C-Rotor is functionally similar to the savonius, but with smaler an lighter Blades.
It works good under turbulent Wind conditions.
Its mostly a drag profile with less lift function. I dont think that is is the same profile than pacwind uses, but it looks similar.
My Generator is a completly ironless Ring Generator. The Magnets are mounted like N S,S N ,N S, S N an so on..
The functionality ist simliar to the well known disk generators, but without needing the iron plates.
The results are nearly the same like the disk generator, also the efficient. Its completly cogging free and comparatively light, but not easy to build.
(sorry for my bad english)
Greetings
Bernd
-- Edited by Bernd on Monday 4th of January 2010 08:48:53 PM
-- Edited by Bernd on Monday 4th of January 2010 08:49:46 PM
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sjh7132
Guru
Status: Online
Posts: 1231
Date: Dec 31, 2009
| RE: German VAWTS |
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| electrondady1 wrote:
i may have just caused an international incident .
using your babelfish link,
i tried to join this german forum .
couldn't quite get to the point where i could ask about the mag layout
oh well
LOL World War III Starts as a miscommunication between VAWT forums.
Steve
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electrondady1
Senior Member
Posts: 428
Date: Dec 31, 2009
| RE: German VAWTS |
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i may have just caused an international incident .
using your babelfish link,
i tried to join this german forum .
couldn't quite get to the point where i could ask about the mag layout
oh well
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sjh7132
Guru
Status: Online
Posts: 1231
Date: Dec 31, 2009
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Project
Veteran Member
Posts: 97
Date: Dec 31, 2009
| RE: German VAWTS |
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| Here is a link to the site, it has a downloadable excel spreadsheet (second section down from top) that appears to calculate wing sizes depending on your input?? If anyone knows German maybe they could give us a little more information. http://www.daswindrad.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=445Don't know of this is a "new" design, it looks similar to the vertical they placed on Jay Leno's place (Pac Wind, 3 blades). Jerry |
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sjh7132
Guru
Status: Online
Posts: 1231
Date: Dec 29, 2009
| RE: German VAWTS |
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| turnymf wrote:
To me the magnets look like discs, maybe they are aligned ns sn ns sn ns to each other and thus pushing the flux out to the coils
That could be the case. Or maybe the disks aren't even magnetized N/S on the flat sides. It it works the way you say, it would be more efficient to just fast a N out, then a S out, etc.
Steve
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turnymf
Veteran Member
Posts: 39
Date: Dec 24, 2009
| RE: German VAWTS |
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To me the magnets look like discs, maybe they are aligned ns sn ns sn ns to each other and thus pushing the flux out to the coils
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sjh7132
Guru
Status: Online
Posts: 1231
Date: Dec 23, 2009
| RE: German VAWTS |
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| Caleb wrote:
He has an interesting generator ... no pole plates required. I wonder if it is difficult to assemble. If he pots the coils in resin he could not put it together. I think the magnets would have a tendency to fly out at high rpms. Still, it is a neat idea!
I've been trying to figure out how that alt works. The bulk of the flux never goes through the loop of the coils. I think it only works because the field lines fringe out. It's hard to imagine that it's very efficient.
Steve
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Caleb
Senior Member
Posts: 473
Date: Dec 21, 2009
| RE: German VAWTS |
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He has an interesting generator ... no pole plates required. I wonder if it is difficult to assemble. If he pots the coils in resin he could not put it together. I think the magnets would have a tendency to fly out at high rpms. Still, it is a neat idea!
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- Bryan
Mechanical Engineer turned stay-at-home dad. |
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sjh7132
Guru
Status: Online
Posts: 1231
Date: Dec 21, 2009
| German VAWTS |
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| __________________
Steve
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